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January 21, 2009, 1:11 pm

No-Knead Dough Again=E2=80=93This Time, For = Pizza

Jim Lahey makes pizzas in the kitchen at Sullivan = Bakery. (Photo:=20 Michael Nagle for The New York Times)

Jim Lahey, whose no-knead = bread=20 was made famous in this = article by Mark=20 Bittman, has adapted=20 it for pizza dough. Mr. Lahey=E2=80=99s pizzeria, Co.,=20 opened recently in Chelsea.

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Previous post Recipe=20 of the Day: Squid in Red Wine Sauce
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From 1 to 25 of 79 Comments

1 2=20 3=20 4=20 Next=20 =C2=BB

1. January 21, 2009 = 1:48 pm Link=20

Probably the most overhyped pizza joint in New York City=20 history.
=E2=80=94 Steven M.
2. January 21, 2009 = 2:22 pm Link=20

So make your own!
=E2=80=94 Jen
3. January 21, 2009 = 3:09 pm Link=20

Compared to the no-knead bread recipe, the differences are only 1/4 = teaspoon more salt and 1/8 cup less water. Are these differences = actually that=20 substantial?
=E2=80=94 Dave
4. January 21, 2009 = 3:28 pm Link=20

Hmmm=E2=80=A6
No-knead?
No need!
=E2=80=94 = David
5. January 21, 2009 = 4:09 pm Link=20

Acutally Dave, the less water is a big deal when baking bread. = Baking is=20 science where cooking is an art.
=E2=80=94 Thanos =
6. January 21, 2009 = 4:40 pm Link=20

I=E2=80=99ve made no-knead bread lots of times. My first response = to this article=20 was =E2=80=9CHow are you ever going to get the pizza off the = peel?=E2=80=9D I guess a whole=20 lot of flour or corn meal on the peel would br the only chance.

Anybody tried this recipe?
=E2=80=94 Bill M =
7. January 21, 2009 = 5:02 pm Link=20

Cake and pastry baking are certainly fussy, but bread baking? = I=E2=80=99d imagine=20 the different protein content in bread flour vs. northern all-purpose = flour=20 vs. southern all-purpose flour would have a greater effect on how = things turn=20 out than that 1/8 cup water. (The 1 & 1/2 cup water is only = =E2=80=9Cexact=E2=80=9D if=20 you=E2=80=99re using the same flour Jim Lahey does =E2=80=94 = we=E2=80=99re also ignoring the fact that=20 Mr. Lahey, as a professional baker, probably weighs his ingredients = instead of=20 using volume measurements.)

That said, my guess is that he cut down on the amount of water to = make the=20 dough more workable. A really sticky, sloppy dough is fine if = you=E2=80=99re just=20 dumping it into a pot, but if you need to work it into a pizza crust, = extra=20 stability is much appreciated. As Mr. Lahey said =E2=80=9CMaking the = dough is easy, =E2=80=A6=20 Handling it, tossing it=E2=80=94that=E2=80=99s the tricky = part.=E2=80=9D

(The extra salt is probably just there for flavor. The savoriness = we expect=20 in a slice of bread is different than what we expect for a pizza=20 crust.)
=E2=80=94 RM
8. January 21, 2009 = 5:17 pm Link=20

Forgive me but I=E2=80=99m really confused.

I read both articles linked here and find the entire concept = exactly the=20 same as that explained in the book =E2=80=9CArtisan Bread in Five = Minutes a Day=E2=80=9D which=20 I=E2=80=99ve been using to great success of late. The ideas are = executed differently=20 (heated broiler pan with added hot water for the moisture vs. the pot) = but the=20 concept the same.

So, which came first? It almost leads me to believe that one copied = the=20 other, or maybe Mr. Lahey just didn=E2=80=99t write a book to go with = his=20 discovery.

Thanks for the guidance!

Sr. Colon in Tejas
=E2=80=94 Cristobal Colon =
9. January 21, 2009 = 5:28 pm Link=20

I gotta say it, and I don=E2=80=99t want to hurt feelings. Frankly, = I like Bitten,=20 his minimalist clips and this section in general.

However : the NYT =E2=80=9Cno knead,=E2=80=9D bread recipe takes = top honors for the single=20 most overhyped recipe of 2008. I played with it like many of you did, = and it=E2=80=99s=20 foolproof alright : for making a flat, listless and flavorless ugly = looking=20 loaf of bread. Who gives a whit about not kneading if the end result = is=20 embarassing to serve.

In your book, Mark, you suggest a decent recipe with a food = processor. That=20 works well enough and I=E2=80=99d recommend that over this = recipe.
=E2=80=94 Guy who=20 forgot his login ID
10. = January 21, 2009 = 5:29 pm Link=20

Just my opinion, but seems like those who are prepared to skip the = kneading=20 process are probably using frozen dough from the store already. = :p
=E2=80=94=20 Melissa
11. = January 21, 2009 = 5:39 pm Link=20

Seems alright. I like a richer dough for pizza personally. I = don=E2=80=99t really=20 see the advantage of no knead though, unless you don=E2=80=99t own a = mixer or food=20 processor. For bread dough, the long slow ferment adds flavor, but = I=E2=80=99m no sure=20 that is such an issue on a pizza, as it is a subtle = change.
=E2=80=94=20 Justin
12. = January 21, 2009 = 5:44 pm Link=20

I hate recipe=E2=80=99s that give instructions such as = =E2=80=9Cbake on top of a very hot=20 pizza stone=E2=80=9D. Don=E2=80=99t be cute. Give us the = temperature!
Lombardi=E2=80=99s bakes at=20 900 degrees. Is that your definition of =E2=80=9Cvery = hot=E2=80=9D?
You=E2=80=99ve got a=20 thermometer. Use it.
=E2=80=94 Richard
13. = January 21, 2009 = 5:45 pm Link=20

This is a NY Time=E2=80=99s article ? Here=E2=80=99s an Oklahoma Oy = Vey.
=E2=80=94 Doug=20 Hill
14. = January 21, 2009 = 6:43 pm Link=20

lots of difference between a good pizza crust and bread. dough. I = bake a=20 lot of bread and tend to bake bread that tastes good and do not pay a = lot of=20 attention to hydration etc. this will draw a lot of flames. But if yu = want=20 salt rising bread, come see me.
=20
=E2=80=94 Tim
15. = January 21, 2009 = 7:49 pm Link=20

Actually, I=E2=80=99ve been using the original formula for pizza = for some time now!=20 Don=E2=80=99t know why it=E2=80=99d require less water =E2=80=93 once = it=E2=80=99s fermented, it=E2=80=99s also lost a=20 good deal of stickiness =E2=80=93 and it=E2=80=99s quite easy to = handle on the bench =E2=80=93=20 besides, the more water, the bigger the holes =E2=80=93 = Nice!
=E2=80=94=20 drfugawe
16. = January 21, 2009 = 8:46 pm Link=20

Bill M =E2=80=93 put a piece of parchment on your peel (no = flour/semolina needed).=20 Form and top your pizza and slide the parchment onto the hot stone = =E2=80=94 450-500=20 heated for 45 mins. prior. Easy, clean, beautiful, whether you use the = no-kneed recipe or not.
=E2=80=94 kari
17. = January 21, 2009 = 8:53 pm Link=20

Well #9, I=E2=80=99ve made the NKB several times, all for serious = foodies who pull=20 no punches. I used the tweaked America=E2=80=99s Test Kitchen recipe = however, and=20 settled on Stella Artois as my =E2=80=9Cspecial=E2=80=9D ingredient. = Served to good responses,=20 especially when presented with a slice of a tart apple and some = Brie.
I=20 look forward to testing out this pizza dough recipe, especially based = on #15=E2=80=99s=20 report.
=E2=80=94 Munchausen
18. = January 21, 2009 = 9:09 pm Link=20

I don=E2=80=99t understand all of the angry sounding comments. = Lighten up folks=20 (Comment #4, 9, 10, 12, 13) .
Comment #9, I have had the exact = opposite=20 experience with the no-knead recipe. Every single person who tries our = bread=20 asks for the recipe. Two of our babysitters and two neighbors this = week alone=20 have asked us about it.
The best traditional Neapolitan pizza uses = dough=20 that has proofed for a long time to develop flavor, usually with a = natural=20 starter (a la Una Pizza Napoletana). I always thought the original = no-knead=20 recipe could be adapted for pizza. It=E2=80=99s got a nice nutty = flavor, without being=20 overly =E2=80=9Cyeasty.=E2=80=9D
Comment #12, most people = can=E2=80=99t get temps over 600 degrees,=20 so the author is really saying, as hot as your oven will go. I let my = stone=20 heat up for a good 45 minutes. Have you read the article from July = about the=20 guy who rigged his home oven to get higher temps for pizza?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/dining/02pizza.html?part= ner=3Dpermalink&exprod=3Dpermalink
=E2=80=94=20 Chicago Mike
19. = January 21, 2009 = 9:10 pm Link=20

i have to say i seconf number nine=E2=80=99s opinion completely, = although my mother=20 taught me to be a little more diplomatic when disagreeing with others. = no=20 knead bread has very little flavor and is completely unappealing to=20 eat.
=E2=80=94 cybercita
20. = January 21, 2009 = 9:49 pm Link=20

I really doubt that 1/4 tsp of yeast will make 4 12-inch pizza = crusts of=20 any height. Mark, I hope you have hand-tested this recipe you = endorse.

Can I also say, it was annoying to click through multiple links to = the=20 recipe, from the RSS feed. That seems like it could be done more=20 efficiently.

Your cooking librarian/efficiency tech,

Celia.
=E2=80=94 Celia
21. = January 21, 2009 = 10:04 pm Link=20

Suggestions to tune this recipe for an elevation of 4500 feet? How = much=20 less yeast?
=E2=80=94 Tom
22. = January 21, 2009 = 10:13 pm Link=20

Thanos, your smugness is misplaced. The point of Fahey=E2=80=99s = no-knead recipes=20 is to avoid that level of fuss. As RM points out, there are plenty of = margins=20 of error involved here, and the science consistently works. Home = bakers,=20 especially those who have no need for consistency because they bake = once or=20 twice a week, have no need for the level of precision you=E2=80=99re = obsessed with.=20 Staying within the margins of error produces very satisfying = results.

I echo the comments about the annoying trail of clicks needed to = see the=20 actual article after following the RSS link. I understand the = Times=E2=80=99 need for=20 clickthroughs and page refreshes to display ads, but this was=20 user-hostile.
=E2=80=94 Bob S.
23. = January 21, 2009 = 10:17 pm Link=20

Actually, Celia, 1/4 tsp of yeast is plenty. The small amount of = yeast=20 means that the dough takes longer to rise. However, it still rises = plenty=20 high.
=E2=80=94 Kelsey
24. = January 21, 2009 = 10:49 pm Link=20

Thanos
Cooking is chemistry, baking is magic.
=E2=80=94 = sintil8=20
25. = January 22, 2009 = 12:37 am Link=20

Pointless hype =E2=80=93 endless variations of this method have = been used by=20 millions of bakers and cooks for centuries, if not millennia. Hardly a = discovery and definitely not rocket science.
=E2=80=94 = Norm=20

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